tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19457872.post5504326977056905212..comments2024-03-17T04:09:26.074-04:00Comments on SpeEdChange: Great Schools: 1. Changing Everythingirasocolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01412837280249622430noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19457872.post-35036067608777769332009-05-28T22:19:08.851-04:002009-05-28T22:19:08.851-04:00If the Regents measured some standardized level of...If the Regents measured some standardized level of achievement and the 3is generally passed the Regents, surely that counts as meeting standards? If you took 20th C USA as Social Studies (and passed the relevant Social Studies Regents) and someone else took it as English (and passed the relevant English Regents), wouldn't you both be meeting uniform standards applied across all students?<br /><br />I would love to teach in a school lie what you've described. I find it incredible that one existed in New Rochelle and another exists in Great Neck. I went to high school in Floral Park, and it was just about the opposite in everything.jsb16https://www.blogger.com/profile/15026570673498674977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19457872.post-56459787457287318482009-05-28T12:52:21.183-04:002009-05-28T12:52:21.183-04:00Debbie,
You got a "W"? I think I got an "11." I'v...Debbie,<br /><br />You got a "W"? I think I got an "11." I've tried to recreate this at times, once giving students New York City Subway routes - "Sure she got an A, but you got a 6!"<br /><br />Yes, the ways he pushed you were quite unique, and quite amazing.<br /><br />Bill,<br /><br />Absolutely true. We take kids who love to learn and in just a year or two in school we turn education into a horror. What this school did was put kids back into a childhood learning mode.<br /><br />Eric,<br /><br />OK, I added you in to make us look good, but you did spend far more time with us than in your own school. But you make a great point.<br /><br />NRHS then - and to some lesser extent now - offered students all sorts of paths to stay in school and do something meaningful with those years. No, neither the 3Is nor any other part produced perfect results, but by offering actual choices the odds of some level of success were raised dramatically.<br /><br />This is, of course, the opposite of NCLB and Arne Duncan educational thought, which seeks to apply a uniform standard across all students. That ensures that only those most pre-determined for success will succeed.<br /><br />The 3Is kept lots of potential drop outs in school. But so did a fabulous vocational program. So did a great performing and visual arts program. And so did a great traditional College Prep program liberated from all the students who had no interest in being there.<br /><br />- Ira Socolirasocolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01412837280249622430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19457872.post-65490820556851624012009-05-28T12:05:14.543-04:002009-05-28T12:05:14.543-04:00I hung around the 3i's and 3i students a fair amou...I hung around the 3i's and 3i students a fair amount (as a matter of fact, I think I am the museum administrator that ira mentions, so I guess I am an honorary 3i-er). The place was perfect for Ira and some of the other folks I know who were there. They really blossomed. Others, of course, didn't. But as Ira points out, most people did OK even in the conventional context of going to 4 year colleges and getting good jobs. <br /><br />There are a couple of context points that Ira makes that are important. New Rochelle High School was diverse in every way, and a large group of students were encouraged to take vocational track courses, while others pursued more academic high school paths, and yet others found their way into 3i's. So the strength of a school like that is the diversity of approaches that can be encouraged and supported. I think it would be a mistake to try to make a 3i program for *all* students because of the individuality of learning styles. A responsive high school that encourages and respects this diversity is a more general goal.<br /><br />The second part is that you kind of need a crisis for stuff like this to work. The late 60's were generally changeful, but in new rochelle in particular, there was a major fire in the high school that helped to shape the identity of 3i's because they were in temporary trailers out in back of the school. Change is both bred and made possible by this kind of "turning point" set of circumstances.<br /><br />Anyway, the 3i ethos affected me, and continues to affect me, even though I never went to school there.<br /><br />EEric Siegelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07845160939767852736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19457872.post-68497523829576720872009-05-28T11:19:09.818-04:002009-05-28T11:19:09.818-04:00Megan,
I don't think that students have lost thei...Megan,<br /><br />I don't think that students have lost their desire to learn new things; the desire is pounded out of them. Every human being is born a naturally curious creature. Then we put them into a formal academic setting to begin the process. In the end, only certain temperaments can flourish in the traditional academic environment. These become the next generation of teachers, and the process begins anew.Bill Genereuxhttp://billgx.edublogs.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19457872.post-23287577503509921022009-05-28T10:33:22.146-04:002009-05-28T10:33:22.146-04:00Honestly, I would've loved this school! I think th...Honestly, I would've loved this school! I think the shift in education has actually hurt students over the years. It seems that schools today are not for <I>learning</I>, they are for meeting "academic standards" and competing. Students really seem to have lost their desire to learn new things, as well as their curiosity.<br /><br />I love that this school helped students in all areas of development, even though the students may not have realized it.<br /><br />Very nice post! =)Meganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00325087313148683702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19457872.post-87453153158548055112009-05-28T10:29:59.831-04:002009-05-28T10:29:59.831-04:00"Shapiro always said that "regular" schools didn't..."Shapiro always said that "regular" schools didn't allow students to fail - that they always had someone else to blame - bad teachers, bad schedule, bad books, bad assignments, boring classes, etc. He said that thus they never owned their failures and thus didn't own their successes either. When all those typical student issues have become student choices - failure is the student's."<br /><br />Shapiro had used this in his regular english class before the 3Is. In our 9th grade class, we voted on a grade for the report card, but he supplemented that grade with an individual evaluation. I'll always remember the final he gave us. True/False; multiple choice; short essay and the part where he gave us the 'answer' and we had to come up with the question: Answer:'I didn't do it" question: 'Where's your Romeo and Juliet paper? Shapiro's comment was, "Feeling guilty?" That made an impact on me years later. I got a "w" on the test.Debbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05773288797635297874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19457872.post-13131521151924315332009-05-28T10:10:51.143-04:002009-05-28T10:10:51.143-04:00I love that people are asking questions:
Bart,
L...I love that people are asking questions:<br /><br />Bart,<br /><br />Let me describe a scene or two. <br /><br />(A) That history class. Day one, teacher: "What do you want to know about the 20th Century in the US?" Long discussion follows. Followed by teacher encouraging us to team up based on periods, not interests, so interests would intersect. Then, in those pre-internet days, "Where would you go to find things?" Then, "go."<br /><br />Later classes would be mostly argument and informal presentation. Steered at times by the teacher? Sure. He might say, "you're talking about the 1930s, anything those of you who know the 1920s might add, considering that one period led to another?"<br /><br />(B) Chemistry. Teacher: "What do we need to know before we can get things planted at the farm?" Soil analysis? Is the ground polluted? How do we find that out? How does that work? Who wants to work on what part of this? Where do we go to find these things out? <br /><br />Or, what exactly is going into Long Island Sound when the sewer system overflows in a storm? How do we know? <br /><br />This takes work on the part of teachers. You have to keep up and you can only prepare so much. Obviously, having laptops in the classroom makes this now so much easier. Still, we did it this way and still managed to pass the standardized tests.<br /><br />- Ira Socol<br /><br />and Tomaz - thanks for being hereirasocolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01412837280249622430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19457872.post-54969397992687550192009-05-28T08:55:45.045-04:002009-05-28T08:55:45.045-04:00you said a lot of times kids weren't even in the s...you said a lot of times kids weren't even in the school- they were actively involved with the community. but when they were in the classroom sitting altogether with a teacher. what did that look like? did the teacher say, 'ok, now we are going to discuss the 10 pages from portrait of the artist as a young man that i assigned for homework'? how did peer pressure work? were kids required to present their work to the group for comment and discussion? i can't picture what you are talking about.bartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19457872.post-80989497989216395012009-05-28T08:09:00.025-04:002009-05-28T08:09:00.025-04:00Here it is, written in a post my own 'dream' schoo...Here it is, written in a post my own 'dream' school and approach to education I have been thinking about and developing for so many years. <br /><br />I work in a 'hard to staff' school (gotta love bureaucratic euphemisms...) and reading this is simply enlightening.<br /><br />I won't gush further - thank you. Thank you.Tomaz Lasichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12880337651682658215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19457872.post-7254547296949306482009-05-28T06:59:08.910-04:002009-05-28T06:59:08.910-04:00Pops,
First thing about the classes is that many ...Pops,<br /><br />First thing about the classes is that many were flexible credit-wise. Taking 20th C American History to read Fitzgerald, Dos Passos, Kerouac? It was "English," taking it to consider what America looked like on film? "Art" Taking it to track part of the history? "Social Studies." Students could often choose. That's not something you can do in the traditional school either.<br /><br />But the organization - giving students choices, building the course around flexible assignments and student-generated content and context, could be done. The main issue wasn't the informality, though I am very sure that comfortable learners are effective learners, but the student-directedness, which created not just peer teaching but peer pressure to keep contributing.<br /><br />Shapiro always said that "regular" schools didn't allow students to fail - that they always had someone else to blame - bad teachers, bad schedule, bad books, bad assignments, boring classes, etc. He said that thus they never owned their failures and thus didn't own their successes either. When all those typical student issues have become student choices - failure is the student's. There might have been no "external" cost, but there was a peer cost ("You're doing nothing man!") and a true internal cost. And when you succeeded, it was all yours.<br /><br />I think some of the teachers were brilliant (no, I know that), but not all. It didn't matter so much. When you allow student-generated content and context to control, the great ideas will rise to the top. Plus, this was a cooperative place. Teachers were not locked alone in their rooms. That creates an imaginative environment which lifted teachers, not just students.<br /><br />As for parents. Yes, they were, for the most part, content that we were not drop outs. That eases pressure. Still, there was a lot of initial mistrust. Slowly that was alleviated through a college acceptance record as good as the "college prep" component of the high school - or better.<br /><br />- Ira Socolirasocolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01412837280249622430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19457872.post-88113295799063653342009-05-28T06:33:33.144-04:002009-05-28T06:33:33.144-04:00But the key thing was, students were known, in eve...But the key thing was, students were known, in every way, by what they were good at. There was no deficit model at work. Not that most of us didn't really struggle with some things, but in this environment you led from your strengths. <br /><br />this is the part i like. i remember being in teacher's college and i was told to choose an area of interest within education and research it. it was such a weird feeling: i could acutally do something i was interested in? those are the papers i remember the content of, where what i learned had an impact on my thinking. in the short term, i can't restructure the school, so i want to know how the more traditional classes were run. granted you chose to be in those classes so you were motivated to pay attention, but were they just straight lecture format? how was parental involvement/support? in the 3i group were parents just happy that their kids were learning so they didn't care how it took place or were most parents not even involved with their kids' education? lastly, it sounds from the course offerings like the teachers were smart, intellectually curious, etc. you aren't going to get that level of intelligence at the average public school i'm afraid. at least that has been my experience at 3 different school districts.popsnoreply@blogger.com